God's Lines or Our Lines

I think we, as Christians, spend a lot of time on talking about what is sinful and what isn’t. We like making those black and white distinctions because it gives us a comfort zone and a place where we can belong. Drawing those lines gives us a sense of identity. And, it is important that we look at the Bible and see where God drew those lines for us. The problem that I have noticed is that, I think, we draw lines where God didn’t draw them.

For example, in my last blog, we looked at dancing and how people make generalizations that dancing is a sin where the Bible never says it is, but rather is very complementary of it. Instead, what the Bible does condemn as sin is sexual immorality. So, God draws the line at sexual immorality where so many of us will draw it at dancing. We draw these lines for ourselves. Sometimes, we call this “hedging” and we do this so we don’t cross any of the lines God drew for us (“Well, if I don’t dance, I won’t be sexually immoral”).

I think that is great that people are so willing to not sin because they know God hates it that they don’t even want to get close to sinning. The problem, of course, arises when people start enforcing the lines they drew for themselves as God’s lines and on other people (“I think dancing can lead to sin, therefore, no one should dance” which will eventually turn into “dancing is sinful”).

This is what I’ve been thinking a lot about lately. I’ve been going back through what I believe and challenging myself to evaluate if something is sinful or not and really thinking about WHY it is sinful if it is.

I’ve spent a lot of time introducing this subject and I appreciate those of you who have and will stay with me through this. I just think it is important for you all to know where I am coming from and don’t just have too much time on my hands. Anyway, moving on.

It wasn’t until about a week ago that I realized that there was really only one sin. I had been studying and teaching the Minor Prophets when I noticed that the same thing kept coming up over and over and over again. The message of a lot of these prophets was that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed due to their unfaithfulness or their idolatry. Unfortunately, things didn’t click into place for me until I was reading Exodus 20, when I noticed that the first four commandments given to the Children of Israel were about putting God first and respecting Him and keeping Him on His Throne. That’s when I realized that there was really only one sin and that sin is idolatry. God drew His line at idolatry.

Idolatry is defined as putting anything other than God on His Throne. That can come in a number of different flavors. For instance, 1 John 2:16 speaks of three different flavors when it mentions “the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.” Another way of saying that is “Lust, Greed, and Pride.” Lust is defined as putting your fleshly desires on God’s Throne. Greed is defined as putting your physical desires on God’s Throne. Pride is defined as putting yourself on God’s Throne. All three of those are putting something other than God on His Throne. Therefore, they are all sin.

Someone asked me recently if I thought some actions were inherently sinful. I told him no, but rather that the intent behind that action is what causes the sin. For example, murder is sinful for a number of different reasons: it devalues something God said was very valuable, valuable enough for Jesus to sacrifice Himself for; it’s taking something that doesn’t belong to you; it’s motivated by hate; it violates the perfect law of love Jesus taught about. Murder is motivated by pride if you stop and think about it. Telling God that He was wrong about all souls being precious or stealing or hating or violating God’s Law is extremely prideful. Murder could even be motivated by greed or lust. It just really depends on the person’s heart. That is where sin begins, in the heart. Jesus even said it in Matthew 5 where He teaches the people that if you hate your brother, you’re guilty of murdering him in your heart. With that said, I don’t think you can murder someone without those prerequisite sins, so, murder is always going to be sinful. However, like with our “dancing” example, there are a lot of actions that will or will not be sinful due to whatever the purpose or intent is of the person. In other words, what is in their heart will determine if something is sinful or not.

So, with that as the basis of my thinking, I have come to a few different conclusions as to what is sinful and what is not (dancing). I have, also, come to a lot of the same conclusions as to what is sinful (murder), but I have a better understanding of why it is sinful now. I think it is imperative that we all sit down and think about this and come to an understanding of what is sinful and what isn’t and why for either way. It’s going to take some effort, but we will be better equipped to serve God and others for it.

I think all of that made sense. If not, these were my points: 1, Don’t draw lines for God; 2, Idolatry is the only sin and it comes in different forms; and 3, The reason why you do something determines whether or not is sinful.

I hope this helps and, if not, I hope I did no harm.
May God bless you all.

~Carwile
  • wondercat
    You made a lot of great points. I firmly believe that we ought to be talking about the heart before we enter into any discussion on dancing, drinking, immodesty, gambling, etc. The problem, sometimes, is that people aren't content with that and they demand lines. These people are usually weak-minded Christians. At any rate, if the Bible draws a line or discusses specific issues, then so should we. For example, I believe that the Bible says more about lascivious dancing than you might think. Am I going to condemn all dancing? No. But I am going to say that lascivious dancing is wrong. But again, great points. I wish that it was this simple all the time.
    by wondercat at 05/02/07 7:51AM
  • paganthomas
    Here's a question to test your theory. This is only academic. Is manslaughter a sin or an accident? It doesn't fit your criteria of sin but it is a crime and breaking the laws of man is also a sin. Where do sins of ommission fall? In print I think this may sound like more of a challenge than it's meant.
    by paganthomas at 05/02/07 3:30PM
  • carwile
    What is causing the manslaughter? If it is an accident due to your negligence(?), I don't see how that could be sinful unless you were just lazy and weren't doing your job. If it a result of something else, like being drunk, then I would have to say that it is just a consequence of another sin.
    by carwile at 05/02/07 5:13PM
  • carwile
    As for sins of ommission, I would have to say that would be a pride issue. It's like saying that you don't really believe that God says what He means. I don't know. Maybe.
    by carwile at 05/02/07 5:15PM
  • adam_m
    I like this post. However, once again you made the point about motives determining the righteousness/sinfullness of an act. I think we can very definitively say that motives can make an action sinful. (Preaching can be sinful if it is done with prideful motives). But the flip side of that coin isn't true...motives cannot make an action righteous. To sin your can either 1)Actually do something that is WRONG (blaspheme) 2)You can do something with improper motives (drink in order to get drunk, therefore no longer being soberminded. But for an action to righteous the actual action itself has to be correct AND the motive has to be right.
    by adam_m at 05/02/07 11:27PM
  • adam_m
    Hedges are one thing we do...but the slippery slope argument is REALLY popular too (I might have mentioned that before on here...). I have heard people argue that we shouldn't let women teach kindergarten kids because that might LEAD to other things, and pretty soon a woman will be teaching the auditorium class. Or years ago people argued that having a kitchen sink to wash communion trays and cups (when we still used glass) was a slippery slope that could easily having a full blown commercial kitchen, complete chicken dinners & ice cream socials. I believe that hedges are good for people, but only on a personal level. Forcing them on others is rather...shall we say Pharasaical (did I just make up a word?)?
    by adam_m at 05/02/07 11:33PM

Dance the Night Away

I don't really write anything on this blog so I imagine that a few of you are surprised that this name was lit up on your list. Well, I didn't want this to be on my main blog for a number of reasons that will remain my own. I just wanted to say these things and I wanted to say them here so that should be sufficient for you. If not, oh well. Get over it.

Recently, I've been thinking about dancing. There are so many people out there (and I've been one of them) that make a blanket statement by saying that "dancing is sinful."

We understand that they mean the type of dancing the daughter of Herodias did when she danced in a provocative manner for Herod (Matthew 14). We all understand the Bible's view on sexual immorality, all the way from lust to adultery; it's against it. The Bible is even so against it that it says to FLEE, run away quickly, from it. And, we all understand that a lot of the popular dancing that goes on at proms and high school dances and parts of some Florida College Musicals promote sexual immorality, causing people to lust which might lead to other things. In essence, it doesn't flee from it, but two-steps to it and to other, more inappropriate things.

With all of that said, it may seem a little odd that I would raise such a question, but is dancing sinful? Well, let me ask you this: is dancing the sin or is sexual immorality the sin?

The first thing to notice when answering this questions is that the Bible, no where, prohibits dancing of any sort. Also, when you look at the Bible, I think you will be surprised (as I was) that there is only one Biblical reference to dancing that leads to sin and that is the one that I mentioned earlier. The other 10 to 15 references seem to be okay with dancing.

For example, after Israel crosses the Red Sea, Miriam and all the women praise God by dancing and singing and God seems to be okay with that (Exodus 15). Also, when David would return from battle, the women would sing and dance around him, saying the thing about him killing his ten-thousands and everyone seemed to be cool with it (1 Samuel 18). Also, David danced with all his might before the Lord when the Ark of the Covenant was returned (2 Samuel 6). The Psalms and Ecclesiastes speak of dancing in praise to God and, once again, God seems to be cool with it (Psalms 149, 150 & Ecclesiastes 3:4). And, if you want to venture into the New Testament, in Luke 7, Jesus is speaking when He likens that generation to a bunch of children that should have danced when they played the flute.

So, let me ask you again: is dancing sinful? I don't think so. I don't think so for a number of reasons. For one, there are different types of dancing. I would love for someone to show me how the waltz or the foxtrot is sinful. I would love to meet the perverted sick-o that thinks toddlers dancing to Raffi's "Baby Beluga" or the Tickle-Me-Elmo song is sexually immoral.

Of course, close-minded people are going to immediately rail against this line of thinking and say, "Well, that's totally different" and I would agree with them. It is totally different than dancing that has the intent of being sexually provocative and so are a lot of other types of dancing. That's one reason why I don't think dancing is sinful, because not all types of dancing are sexual in nature. There are dances of joy, happiness, awesomeness, excitement, the "pee-pee" dance, and so on. There's the "choreography" that goes on in Florida College musicals. There are classy dances like the waltz and foxtrot. There are silly dances and many more types of dances that have nothing sexual about them. Therefore, I can't call them sinful, especially, when the Bible seems to make a case FOR these types of dancing and seems to actually encourage such dancing (for example, David dancing for joy).

So, let me ask you again: is dancing sinful? I ask because some are still reading this and saying that it is. I will give you this; it is a poor question. It does assume that all dancing is the same. So, let me ask it this way: is sexually provocative dancing sinful? Well, let me ask you this: is it the dancing that makes it sinful or is it the intent? Is it the result that makes it sinful? I believe it is the intent of an action that makes it sinful or not. Look at the difference between murder and manslaughter. Murder is premeditative and it is done out of anger or wrath or rage while manslaughter is accidental and unintentional. In both instances, people are dead, but it is the intent of the killer that makes it sinful or not; not the act itself or the result. So, dancing that accidentally results in sin is not sinful, but the intent to cause someone to sin behind dancing is sinful.

Now, I have one final question for you: is dancing sinful? Well, to be able to answer that, you would have to know what the person’s intent would be. How are you going to know that? Well, if they don't tell you specifically that they are dancing to get a member of the opposite sex to mate with them, you really can't know, can you? Granted, when a teenage (and older) boy and girl are bumping and grinding up against each other, you might have a pretty good idea what they are thinking, but unless they tell you, you don't really know. It is between them and God and as a result of that; we cannot judge those that dance.

Now, this last part is going to sound like I'm taking all of that back, but I don't think that all dancing is a good idea. I think it is good to avoid certain types of dancing (like the dancing that goes on at the prom and you know what I'm taking about). Am I saying to avoid all dancing? No. All I am saying is that we need to use some good judgment when it comes to the types of dancing that we engage in. The good judgment should, and this is my opinion, be based on the question of "Is this going to cause someone else to sin?" I think the bumping and grinding has a better chance of getting someone to sin (whether that was your intent or not) than the Chicken Dance, but that is what I think. You use your own judgment to answer those questions for yourself as to what is a good idea and what should be avoided.

Well, that's pretty lengthy, but I think I said a lot and I think I said enough. I would love to hear what you have to say on the subject.

May God bless you all.
~Carwile

PS- This is a bonus question: is it sinful to dance with your wife or husband in private even with the intent on getting them into bed by doing it? Hmmmm...
PPS- Are you starting to see how ridiculous this whole thing is?
  • the_sexy_mosher
    words can't express some feelings... know what I am saying dawg?
    by the_sexy_mosher at 04/25/07 4:15PM
  • super_swillis
    I love waltzing. Its fun. Plus whenever I have done waltzing before the boys are too busy trying to remember the steps to be lusting. lol
    by super_swillis at 04/25/07 4:49PM
  • quinners24
    I would say Exodus 32:19 was inappropriate dancing, but for a different reason than Matthew 14:6.
    by quinners24 at 04/25/07 5:27PM
  • curtis2
    What is Exodus 32? Is that when Moses comes down from the mountain? If so, I forgot about that one, but I think it is a different kind of dancing, probably the dancing Miriam and the women were doing earlier. However, I do not know. I'll have to look into it.
    by curtis2 at 04/25/07 6:32PM
  • paganthomas
    Excellent thoughts on dancing. The world would be a bettter place if everyone stopped and reasoned out thier opinions as much as you. (Although probably a LOT slower place.)
    by paganthomas at 04/25/07 6:55PM
  • dixiechick
    Great thoughts, Curtis. This is probably the most well thought out and logical argument on dancing. And I have to say, I laughed out loud when I read "the 'pee-pee' dance."
    by dixiechick at 04/25/07 10:35PM
  • azrael
    if anybodys be bustin' a lust at the "happy bear" they are some crazy sick in the head!
    by azrael at 04/26/07 2:02AM
  • ambiguous_username
    I don't know about you guys, but the first thing I think of when I see the pee-pee dance is sexual immorality. When I have kids, I'll have to make sure I to teach them not to do that.
    by ambiguous_username at 04/26/07 9:29AM
  • ambiguous_username
    Now, in all seriousness, I totally agree. I think it is absolutely ridiculous when you have people going all "DANCING??!?!? Mama said dancin' is the DEBIL!!!!" As you so well pointed out, it's quite obviously not condemned as a sin. It's unfortunate that nearly all dances today are centered around sexuality, else we would never worry about posts such as this possibly being considered as blasphemous. Which, it's not of course. But I guarantee that someone has/will read this and will think "But...but...it's a SIN!"
    by ambiguous_username at 04/26/07 9:29AM
  • bucket_head
    Yeah, cleaver. Maybe I feel like a psycho killer today. You don't know.
    by bucket_head at 04/26/07 11:41AM
  • sarahpet
    does this mean that we are going to be invited to do the chicken dance at your wedding? :)
    by sarahpet at 04/26/07 3:26PM
  • frogkisser
    There will be NO chicken dance at our wedding. Please.
    by frogkisser at 04/26/07 3:36PM
  • the_sexy_mosher
    There may not be dancing.. but there will be blood, lots of blood... * a soft, still voice whispers the immortal words upon the wind "Mr. Bu..."
    by the_sexy_mosher at 04/27/07 12:05AM
  • adam_m
    by adam_m at 04/27/07 10:34AM
  • frogkisser
    Good grief, Nick.
    by frogkisser at 04/27/07 10:35AM
  • meg
    I was just on my soapbox the other day with a friend about this. Sigh...too much alike.
    by meg at 04/27/07 11:50PM
  • curtis2
    Aye, that we are, my dear friend. That we are.
    by curtis2 at 04/28/07 6:52AM
  • frogkisser
    Let's dance, put on your red shoes and dance the blues, Let's dance to the song they're playin' on the radio...
    by frogkisser at 04/30/07 8:42PM
  • frogkisser
    Hey, David Bowie said it, not me.
    by frogkisser at 04/30/07 8:43PM

WHY-O-WHY?

Why are there so many stupid people on here? I don't even mean the teenie-boopers that are like "ROFL LOL BRB TTYL YMCA CSPAN ADHD CUZ...". I'm mean, they're stupid and all, but I'm talking about the really stupid people that think they are SOOOO intelligent and think that everyone else is wrong, especially when they believe in conventional wisdom. I can't stand people like that! Why can't we drag them out into the street and beat them upside their upitty heads?

That is my rant for the day.
~Carwile

Hmmmm....

I just wanted to see if anyone would check it if my name was white on their friends list.

~Carwile
  • curtis2
    I think the better question would be: are YOU the same guy as him?
    by curtis2 at 11/22/06 3:23AM
  • carwile
    Shut up! You're both crazy!
    by carwile at 11/22/06 3:23AM
  • frogkisser
    Heehee.
    by frogkisser at 11/22/06 9:36AM
  • sararschick
    Thanks for joining Support_Our_Troops! :)
    by sararschick at 11/28/06 7:22PM
  • abbey
    hey curtis. :) I know its you...you kinda let the cat outta the bag on the smiley_mcbutterbutt blog. :D
    by abbey at 12/05/06 10:12AM
  • frogkisser
    Oooh, I liked the Fish Tank shirt, too! We could get one each and match. OR NOT. Yes, I think the "or not" is the appropriate answer.
    by frogkisser at 12/05/06 5:38PM
  • sweetmelissa
    It seems like you've made that comment before...
    by sweetmelissa at 12/05/06 5:57PM
  • abbey
    good :)
    by abbey at 12/05/06 8:27PM
  • spookbrat
    Hey, you're pretty smart. I'm glad you're a friend now. Smart friends are good to have on your side. LOL Don't you want to make a new post some time soon? Where do you live btw?

    Kind blessings for a good day.
    by spookbrat at 12/07/06 1:37PM
  • curtis2
    I post all the time. Just not under this name.
    by curtis2 at 12/08/06 2:33AM
  • spookbrat
    Tampa. :) We just moved here. I don't like it. I want to go home to Texas. I'm trying to have a good attitude.
    by spookbrat at 12/08/06 7:30AM
  • ilikelollipops
    YOU STOLE MY LIFE!
    by ilikelollipops at 12/08/06 3:23PM
  • ilikelollipops
    you describe yourself as flamboyantly homosexual and you don't like chicken.
    by ilikelollipops at 12/08/06 11:10PM
  • ilikelollipops
    and you feel insecure about your fungii.
    by ilikelollipops at 12/08/06 11:11PM
  • frogkisser
    I love you.
    by frogkisser at 12/14/06 9:51PM
  • bucket_head
    Only losers with noting better to do write ten page blogs.
    by bucket_head at 12/19/06 12:00PM
  • sarahpet
    Did you hear that Curtis was sick?
    by sarahpet at 01/06/07 11:00PM
  • carwile
    Yeah. I heard something about magenta and green.
    by carwile at 01/11/07 5:15AM
  • dark_day
    curtis?? maybe??
    by dark_day at 01/22/07 11:30PM
  • sarahpet
    is this all we are going to get from you on this blog...maybe you can recycle your earlist blogs from the other place. you could be a two timer...er double timer..you know we get two for the price of one.
    by sarahpet at 01/25/07 12:19AM

Hello

Hi. I'm Carwile. I forgot I had this thing. Leave me a message of things you've forgotten about and found later. That is a command and not a request.
  • frogkisser
    Ummm, to follow your commands...
    I'd forgotten you and found you later.
    by frogkisser at 08/09/06 2:38PM
  • carwile
    The ads on my blog just keep getting weirder and weirder.
    by carwile at 08/11/06 11:40AM
  • mister_c
    $5 in a coat pocket. It was nice.
    by mister_c at 08/12/06 3:19PM
  • musicaljill
    is this a blog for your other personality?
    by musicaljill at 08/13/06 3:49PM
  • jungleman
    I was never gold.
    by jungleman at 08/16/06 7:05AM
  • torque_fxfa
    i wonder if you've forgotten about forgetting you had this
    by torque_fxfa at 08/20/06 2:57AM
  • carwile
    not yet
    by carwile at 08/20/06 3:34AM
  • torque_fxfa
    whew...i was getting worried
    by torque_fxfa at 08/20/06 11:15PM
  • sarahpet
    I forgot a private comment i made and later found it, realizing I had posted it "public" instead.
    I wonder how many people who have pleo gold have done that!?!
    by sarahpet at 08/21/06 10:55PM
  • juju
    is this curtis too?
    by juju at 08/22/06 2:30PM
  • frogkisser
    Weird, isn't it?
    by frogkisser at 08/22/06 2:38PM
  • sarahpet
    now we have double the facsinating blogs.:)
    by sarahpet at 08/23/06 6:52AM
  • curtis2
    Not really.
    by curtis2 at 08/23/06 6:53AM
  • vampyric_ky_girl
    I forgot today is Sunday. I woke up thinking I had to get ready for class. It took me a few minutes but when I realized I don't have classes today, I was pretty happy...
    by vampyric_ky_girl at 08/27/06 2:03PM
  • carwile
    Numbers you don't need to forget: (502) 957-7550 or (270) 769-2301 or (800) 946-3166
    by carwile at 09/09/06 8:07AM
  • sweetmelissa
    I'm sorry, who is this?
    by sweetmelissa at 10/05/06 10:15AM
  • cellophane
    are those new numbers for you?
    by cellophane at 10/05/06 12:23PM
  • carwile
    nope.
    by carwile at 10/05/06 4:29PM
  • tu_madre
    unfortunately for you, your little agent of doom has a work schedule of doom on thursday. blah. i am slowly getting burnt out...
    by tu_madre at 10/25/06 9:04PM
  • frogkisser
    by frogkisser at 10/25/06 11:03PM