Yesterday I went to an Atheist meeting
The featured speaker was the president of American Atheists, I suppose the largest Atheist organization in the country
The organization is still remarkably small, though, in my opinion. They only have branches in 28 states and at their national convention they're hoping to top 500 attendees. Their "billboard campaign" consists in 5 billboards in Des Moines, Iowa. So Mr. Silverman, the president, wasn't some national figure. He did make it onto O'Reilly recently, thanks to a provocative billboard in Huntsville, AL.
Haha, I just tried listening to the youtube of that interview. Don't bother.
In any event, Esther and Roman and I were hoping for some kind of defense of atheism. Instead we got an insider's meeting on the long-term strategies of the atheist movement. Of course, there was repeated mention of how everybody KNOWS there's no "invisible magic man in the sky." Granted, it was not the intent of the presentation, but there was no mention -- not a word -- of HOW we are supposed to know. Just repeated, entirely unsupported assertions. The closest he came was a brief comparison to the Matrix, the idea being that theists claim something similar to people who believe we are actually living in a computer program and there is actually a world beyond us -- a claim beyond proof or disproof.
Well, he solicited questions from the audience, and I asked him to briefly state his reasons for how we are supposed to know God (we'll leave the "magic man" term to the side for a minute) doesn't exist.
My recollection of his response is not perfectly clear, but he started off by saying something to the effect that throughout history mankind has just made and destroyed gods, one people conquering another and eliminating their deities, and so forth. He seemed to make a second point, essentially asserting that we (people) have a firm grasp on what is real and what is not, and that supernature doesn't fit in the real category. I've leave it to you to try and figure out what the first argument might offer in establishing that God (the Christian God, that is) doesn't exist. The second one relies on intuition. No better, clearly, than a religionist saying that THEY just KNOW. A pure statement of blind faith.
Harking back to a phrase that Mr. Silverman earlier used to describe his organization -- "marines of freethought" -- I suggested that freethinking should imply that we consider all explanations of nature, including supernature. Mr. Silverman reacted by claiming that the two were mutually exclusive, apparently meaning to say that I was placing supernature within nature, which doesn't make logical sense. I responded that it is illogical to say that nature is responsible for itself. He denied that. He said, "Freethinking means we consider all options. But it doesn't mean we take them all seriously."
It was a short back and forth. It was not the forum for an extended debate, and I wasn't interested into entering one there. So I let it go. I was basically trying to accomplish a couple of things: 1) Point out to the listeners that he had not attempted to provide reasoning for his strong (even insulting) assertions, 2) If they are real thinkers, help them see that he relies on intuition for his beliefs, and doesn't give serious consideration to opposing viewpoints, and 3) let them know that there is someone there with contrary ideas that they can talk to if they want. I don't know to what extent any of that was acheived.
Upon further reflection, if I were feeling bold I could have pushed the issue further and pointed out that really, his first point (which serves to highlight the universality of belief in the supernatural) should indicate to him that supernature deserves his serious consideration. It is not something to brush off; in fact, it is throughout human history universally regarded as fact that deity exists. It is the height of pompous arrogance to think that we are so much smarter and more rational than all the generations before us that we can just intuit their error.
And do they have motivation for blindly asserting that God doesn't exist? The Rutgers Humanist Chaplain that introduced Mr. Silverman quoted Madalyn Murray O'Hare, the founder of American Atheists, defining what an atheist is: "An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of god." Here in lies the appeal of atheism. Look again at the first four words: "An Atheist loves himself." You come first. Do what you want. You are your own god. Enjoy.
I would join Silverman in poking fun at people who believe in invisible men in the sky. Really, no one does. Christians, at least, believe in an invisible God far above the sky, for He in fact created it, and if He were visible He wouldn't be much of a God. But I'd also poke fun -- and this is actually more worthy of ridicule -- at those who elevate visible man on earth to the status of deity. Each atheist is his own god. This is the epitome of foolishness.
It's not surprising people reject God. To call God God is to admit you're not.
The organization is still remarkably small, though, in my opinion. They only have branches in 28 states and at their national convention they're hoping to top 500 attendees. Their "billboard campaign" consists in 5 billboards in Des Moines, Iowa. So Mr. Silverman, the president, wasn't some national figure. He did make it onto O'Reilly recently, thanks to a provocative billboard in Huntsville, AL.
Haha, I just tried listening to the youtube of that interview. Don't bother.
In any event, Esther and Roman and I were hoping for some kind of defense of atheism. Instead we got an insider's meeting on the long-term strategies of the atheist movement. Of course, there was repeated mention of how everybody KNOWS there's no "invisible magic man in the sky." Granted, it was not the intent of the presentation, but there was no mention -- not a word -- of HOW we are supposed to know. Just repeated, entirely unsupported assertions. The closest he came was a brief comparison to the Matrix, the idea being that theists claim something similar to people who believe we are actually living in a computer program and there is actually a world beyond us -- a claim beyond proof or disproof.
Well, he solicited questions from the audience, and I asked him to briefly state his reasons for how we are supposed to know God (we'll leave the "magic man" term to the side for a minute) doesn't exist.
My recollection of his response is not perfectly clear, but he started off by saying something to the effect that throughout history mankind has just made and destroyed gods, one people conquering another and eliminating their deities, and so forth. He seemed to make a second point, essentially asserting that we (people) have a firm grasp on what is real and what is not, and that supernature doesn't fit in the real category. I've leave it to you to try and figure out what the first argument might offer in establishing that God (the Christian God, that is) doesn't exist. The second one relies on intuition. No better, clearly, than a religionist saying that THEY just KNOW. A pure statement of blind faith.
Harking back to a phrase that Mr. Silverman earlier used to describe his organization -- "marines of freethought" -- I suggested that freethinking should imply that we consider all explanations of nature, including supernature. Mr. Silverman reacted by claiming that the two were mutually exclusive, apparently meaning to say that I was placing supernature within nature, which doesn't make logical sense. I responded that it is illogical to say that nature is responsible for itself. He denied that. He said, "Freethinking means we consider all options. But it doesn't mean we take them all seriously."
It was a short back and forth. It was not the forum for an extended debate, and I wasn't interested into entering one there. So I let it go. I was basically trying to accomplish a couple of things: 1) Point out to the listeners that he had not attempted to provide reasoning for his strong (even insulting) assertions, 2) If they are real thinkers, help them see that he relies on intuition for his beliefs, and doesn't give serious consideration to opposing viewpoints, and 3) let them know that there is someone there with contrary ideas that they can talk to if they want. I don't know to what extent any of that was acheived.
Upon further reflection, if I were feeling bold I could have pushed the issue further and pointed out that really, his first point (which serves to highlight the universality of belief in the supernatural) should indicate to him that supernature deserves his serious consideration. It is not something to brush off; in fact, it is throughout human history universally regarded as fact that deity exists. It is the height of pompous arrogance to think that we are so much smarter and more rational than all the generations before us that we can just intuit their error.
And do they have motivation for blindly asserting that God doesn't exist? The Rutgers Humanist Chaplain that introduced Mr. Silverman quoted Madalyn Murray O'Hare, the founder of American Atheists, defining what an atheist is: "An Atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of god." Here in lies the appeal of atheism. Look again at the first four words: "An Atheist loves himself." You come first. Do what you want. You are your own god. Enjoy.
I would join Silverman in poking fun at people who believe in invisible men in the sky. Really, no one does. Christians, at least, believe in an invisible God far above the sky, for He in fact created it, and if He were visible He wouldn't be much of a God. But I'd also poke fun -- and this is actually more worthy of ridicule -- at those who elevate visible man on earth to the status of deity. Each atheist is his own god. This is the epitome of foolishness.
It's not surprising people reject God. To call God God is to admit you're not.
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I've never understood how Athiests can even be convinced of their beliefs with all the proof for God all around them in nature. I agree though it is because of selfishness that they believe what they do. Whether or not your questions were responded to correctly has no correlation to the message not being heard. I just hope that some people in the audience listened to what you had to say and that maybe their hearts will be stirred to learn more about the gospel.