Debra Medina

Hey guys, I want you to know about this great lady. She's constitutional (unheard of in our day) and she supports many things that I know Christians would be interested in. Check her out online. Don't vote for the sell out (Perry) or the bail out (Hutchinson). Vote for someone who will reduce our taxes (property tax removed), and restore out state sovereignty. Instead of selling out our country to the global community, or putting the bailout burden on the people. Check her out.
  • alinarenee
    Yep, yep. medinafortexas.com
    by alinarenee at 01/19/10 6:15PM
  • scrimp
    Hm. Can I vote even though I'm in FL?
    by scrimp at 01/20/10 6:41PM
  • thecarguy
    Ha Ha, you want an 3 egg omlette?
    by thecarguy at 03/12/10 7:37PM
  • thecarguy
    Cause im to lazy to make anybody else one except me. ha ha
    by thecarguy at 03/18/10 12:06PM

12/21/09 6:32PM

I azer4xrogoiyhgfpihasQR JIFA AM FAT


This was the result of my struggle for domination of my pleonast.
  • tom_bombadil
    and epileptic as well.
    by tom_bombadil at 12/21/09 7:01PM
  • markroberts
    ?
    by markroberts at 12/21/09 10:53PM
  • plato
    by plato at 12/21/09 11:31PM
  • pilgrim
    You are a stupid head
    by pilgrim at 12/22/09 6:11PM
  • scrimp
    Lame.
    by scrimp at 01/02/10 5:59PM
  • markroberts
    yep, sure do. "Would John Wayne and Dirty Harry come to Church?"
    by markroberts at 01/05/10 12:25AM
  • markroberts
    ^^^ slight correction. the actual title is "Would Big Jake, Dirty Harry or John Madden come to Church?"
    by markroberts at 01/05/10 2:40PM

Gospel Meeting

Hey guys, We're continuing our gospel meeting with Justin McCorkle through Wednesday at Centralia - 7:00 each night.

Take 94 west out of lufkin and turn right at the second caution light in Apple Springs (375). Go down a few miles and the building is on the left. Make it out if you can, it'd be a great encouragement. Plus Justin is doing a great job.
  • jamiemmoon
    Wish I could be there!
    by jamiemmoon at 11/09/09 11:12AM
  • charade08
    ill be there tonight XD
    by charade08 at 11/09/09 12:52PM
  • alinarenee
    I wish I could make it. :( I'm planning on Wednesday, though.
    by alinarenee at 11/09/09 2:20PM
  • drewbie
    Who's that?
    by drewbie at 11/09/09 5:24PM

Is he really offering democracy? - We Bring Democracy to the Fish Paper

After reading through some of the responses already, and after having my own initial views about this poem, I thought that he was talking about how democracy couldn’t figure out every problem. As well, there is application to schools because we want to protect our children, but the problem is that we will never fully be able to protect them. I thought about these explanations but I believe there is a deeper meaning.

Democracy by it’s own definition is self rule - So if we follow the principles of this poem “We Bring Democracy To The Fish” then how does breaking them up and protecting them promote democracy? There is no “fish ruling themselves”, it is ruled by the unknown person or being in the story. There is no true democracy even spoken of in the poem - but what people think democracy provides as opposed to what it really is.

Look at this, we see a breaking up of groups, a giving to their physical desires, and preparing to where they can fulfill a purpose. All of these benefits given to the fish to hide the control of the unknown being. But we in our minds equate those with democracy, so as the poem speaks about - we must be providing the fish democracy since they are receiving all these great benefits.

The problem throughout all this comes down to the one ruling. He has the mask of freedom and prosperity. He is seen as the one “liberating” the fish into what he calls democracy. Which if you look at what he is liberating them into - it is full of cages and control of their lives. He uses these means under the definition of “protection”, and may in one sense protect them, but only by stripping their freedom.

How does this relate to schools? Imagine a school that breaks up it’s students or teachers into control groups. That way they can monitor closely what is going on, all under the name of “safety.” While under that safety they are protected and cared for. The problem comes in when teachers want to branch out of the system because there is something better. Those “fish” are put back into their place and are controlled by the unknown being.

The way freedom works is this - you have the ability to choose right and wrong, the ability to make a difference or fail trying, the ability to succeed or fail. In a “safe” regulated environment no one fails (is eaten), and everyone lives in a perceived “utopia.” The only problem is this - you might be “safe” but you are not free to live your life or make your own decisions. Even a fish in a “farm” is safe, but that doesn’t mean he will ever grow outside of that pond.

Here’s the application - Teachers should have freedom in what they teach and how they educate. There is a “safe” place - the teaching we have done before, the methods we used before, or what the textbooks say is correct. And what the “unknown being” would like more than anything else is your compliance with the standard, and he will provide for you and other fish under the pretense of “democracy.” He can call it this because he attempts to give you some of the benefits of democracy. The problem is that the fish aren’t free, and there will never be growth beyond the pond. It is communism in a pure form.
Well what about the last phrase? “At maturity the fish will discover their purposes.” This is the way the “unknown being” delays relevant and challenging thought. This whole time the fish have been told - wait, wait, wait, and then the fish are never given the true answer. The reason he can’t know the answer is because if fish are not free and fulfilling their God given role, they are nothing but rats in a lab. Born to grow and die inside a controlled environment, knowing nothing of the outside world and oblivious to what is truth. Just like the people in the cave from Plato.

My response to the “unknown being” - Take your so called democracy to someone else that you think you can control. Leave us in our environment of freedom, because I would rather have a chance at success with a chance at failure, than to ever live in a chained environment my entire life and never know what the real world is.
  • plato
    I agree with your main points, but if it will be allowed in a friendly discussion, I must take issue with your understanding of "democracy." Democracy is by NO definition "self-rule", it is majority rule. With that in mind reflect upon the famous Benjamin Franklin quote; "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." People often misunderstand our nation's founders to think that they believed in democracy and established one. In fact, they believed democracy and freedom could not coexist because the majority would trample the rights of the minority. So they established a republic (rule by law) with a representative form of government, elected in a democratic manner (but not truly, as they established the electoral college to keep the heavily populated areas from trampling the rural states).

    Democracy is the opposite of freedom. It always has been and always will be. This has little to do with your poem, but more to do with your comments. If I were to suggest an explanatory read I would recommend Bastiat's The Law or Ron Paul's The Revolution.

    As far as your "application" points concerning education and teacher's freedom, I agree.
    by plato at 10/31/09 10:00PM

We Bring Democracy To The Fish

We Bring Democracy To The Fish

It is unacceptable that fish prey on each other.
For their comfort and safety, we will liberate them
into fish-farms with secure, durable boundaries
that exclude predators. Our care will provide
for their liberty, health, happiness, and nutrition.
Of course all creatures need to feel useful.
At maturity the fish will discover their purposes.


Poem: "We Bring Democracy To The Fish" by Donald Hall, from White Apples and the Taste of Stone. © Houghton Mifflin Company, 2007. Reprinted with permission.


This was a Poem that was put down as an assignment for our class in SED 370. Tell me what you think
  • alinarenee
    Well I don't find it "unacceptable that fish prey on each other." That's how they're made, they function according to instinct, as opposed to learned behaviors like we humans. So that seems to toss out the rest of the poem since that's Hall's whole reasoning behind it.
    by alinarenee at 10/28/09 1:59PM
  • aggieman
    Sometimes people's good intentions are subverted by their power. And it shows the power of words, because with this description, almost any uneducated fish would think "Hey thats a great idea!"

    Sometimes its better just to live than to be provided everything necessary for life.
    by aggieman at 10/28/09 2:22PM
  • johndavid
    the un-acceptableness is clearly sarcastic. The satire of the poem is trying to depict what he thinks is the American mindset that while we refuse to let them devour one another in the name of liberty we are only preserving them for our usefulness or consumption when we require it. This is the argument that many use about why we fight for "liberty" in the Middle East while the true motive is to continue oil production.

    I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with this option this is just what i see the author is saying.
    by johndavid at 10/28/09 3:19PM
  • johndavid
    I would be interested to see whether this poem was written prior to of after the 1990 era.
    by johndavid at 10/28/09 3:25PM
  • starryeyed08
    I think the thoughts behind the poem are depicting a socialist society. I think the author is saying that even though we try to set up a democratic society it will eventually become socialist. I have alot of thoughts on this poem, but not sufficient time to write it.

    P.S. i'm not on your friends list add me :-P
    by starryeyed08 at 10/28/09 4:55PM
  • plato
    I don't think the poem is about the fish at all, but about the individuals who presume to try and control others due to their personal beliefs that things should be done differently. Men have always attempted to play god over one another. Modern society and government is no exception.
    by plato at 10/28/09 9:01PM
  • tom_bombadil
    I'm not going to do your homework for you, Shane.
    by tom_bombadil at 10/28/09 10:10PM
  • baseballcraz32
    ... I already wrote the paper. I just wanted to see what people thought..
    by baseballcraz32 at 10/29/09 7:25AM
  • lilferg88
    the road to hell is paved with good intentions. and that's all I have to say about that...
    by lilferg88 at 10/29/09 11:53AM