"I will eat this, but I am deeply offended by it!" -The Lorax

I'm still here! I haven't given up! Although, I have to admit, motivation in still using Pleonast is sort of being lost now, seeing as I'm friends with all but one or two of you on Facebook, and my Facebook statuses are already about as long as my Pleonast posts are. I suppose Facebook has become my new Pleonast, as it has with many, but I will say, I still do check Pleo and read your posts, so I'm not totally abandoning it.

I suppose big things in my life since my last post are:

Adopting an additional two siblings.
Taking Piano lessons now.
Working on memorizing 1 John.
Lecture week being next week!
Buying myself a DSLR Camera (as of Monday, actually, so that's actually pretty recent).

That certainly isn't everything, but I suppose it will do for now.

I admit, it's hard to find motivation in posting, and I probably still won't write lengthy ones like I used to desire, but I may give small summaries of events that might happen.

  • kattath
    Welcome back! I am on pleo every day! It's set as my home page, and then I do things like check email and FB. I kind of go in waves of how often I post. Sometimes it's every other day or two, and sometimes it's more sparingly. It's nice to hear how you're doing!
    by kattath at 01/30/13 11:18AM
  • sirtarin
    I'm glad you're still here. I'm still debating with myself about giving to Facebook, though, if it's like what happened with Google+, I'd probably almost never touch it. But I keep hearing annoying things about it, so I'm still holding off. :P

    Enjoy the camera! If you want to know anything about it, you can ask Didymus. He'd probably enjoy having another person to talk about cameras with. And could probably tell you more about using them than you want to know, unless you're a serious amateur photographer. :)
    by sirtarin at 01/31/13 12:14AM
  • sirtarin
    I suppose I can relate to that, at least in part. :)
    by sirtarin at 01/31/13 2:22PM
  • preciousgoldring
    Have fun at lectures!
    by preciousgoldring at 01/31/13 8:48PM
  • engelishgentleman
    You can haz a camurah? NICE.
    by engelishgentleman at 02/02/13 8:41PM
  • engelishgentleman
    You can haz a camurah? NICE.
    by engelishgentleman at 02/02/13 8:41PM
  • sirtarin
    Actually, I'm still going through the "Praise for the Lord" book. I did not realize "A Purple Robe" was in "Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs", and I can't check right now because our copies got left in the van from the last time we thought we might use them, and we never got around to removing them. And Mother just left in the van. :P

    I may do "Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs" next. And maybe I'll stick with it a little better, and not take a couple years to go through it. :P
    by sirtarin at 02/04/13 8:45PM

"I think it's intimidating me..."

For some reason, I'm psychologically opposed to making short Pleo post. I think it's 'cause it's a blog, and there's some unwritten rule that blog's should be longer than just a few statements. However, as much as I'd like to write something (I tried, but kinda failed. Perhaps I'll succeed another time; it's not due to any shortage of things to post about, it's just not coming to me right now), I don't really have the time at the moment, but I also want something different than my rant about hymns, so here's a place holder for until I can actually get something different up, whenever that may be.

I'm having an amazing fall (pun away), and I hope you all are, too.

  • sallyanne
    Actually, seasons are not capitalized except in a few cases (i.e. in a title, first word in a sentence, or when personified).

    I enjoy summer and spring, but autumn and winter are my favorite seasons ;).
    by sallyanne at 10/28/12 5:20PM
  • engelishgentleman
    Consider: "blog" evolved out of "weblog," a log kept on the web. Log entries need not be long. He who has ears to hear must hear.
    by engelishgentleman at 10/29/12 8:57AM
  • engelishgentleman
    Also, fall is also my favorite season, and Bill is the best pony.
    by engelishgentleman at 10/29/12 8:58AM
  • sirtarin
    I generally would rather make a longer post than a little tiny one. But I haven't been making myself buckle down to actually write many lately.

    This fall has been good. =)
    by sirtarin at 10/30/12 11:56AM
  • Megalexandros

    Hm, well that's a new grammar thing learned. I guess my understanding of "proper nouns" has been a little skewed.

    I guess you can make all the puns you want, now.

    by Megalexandros at 10/30/12 1:05PM
  • sirtarin
    I agree that it would be a bit odd. Maybe I should see if my uncles who've been doing a fair bit of genealogy exploration can find a connection between us. :)

    By the way, do you know Ben Holloway, who started at FC last semester?
    by sirtarin at 12/27/12 2:54PM
  • sirtarin
    I was wondering if that might be the case. Some of the comments he made while he was up here for Christmas made me suspect he might know you (Such as knowing someone who's memorized "All of Me", and who was at the church he attended while at FC.), but I never remembered to ask him specifically. As for how I know him, he's a fellow uncle to my nieces. His sister is my brother's wife. :)
    by sirtarin at 12/28/12 1:00AM
  • sirtarin
    It is quite amusing. =)
    by sirtarin at 12/30/12 4:31PM

"Serve the LORD with gladness; Come before Him with joyful singing," Psalm 100.2

I know I said I'd regale you with the events of my summer after I got back in Florida and had more time. Only one of those has come true. At this point, knowing me, I kinda of doubt I'll ever actually get around to it. Right now, I want to contemplate a matter that has been on my mind quite a bit since Indiana Leadership camp.

At Leadership camp, I had the privilege of taking a singing class lead by Stephen Rouse, in which we sang and learned about hymns. I also had the opportunity of using quite a remarkable hymnal at the time; the new Sumphonia hymnal, Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual Songs (I liked it so much, I actually bought one for myself, which I've never done for a hymnal before). As musical as I am, the class would probably classify as my favorite one of the week. This class really got me thinking about hymns in general, and what exactly qualifies as a "good hymn". Here are my thought...


A balance needs to be drawn between words and tune. Ultimately, the words are the most important part, 'cause it's in the words that any meaning is found. The closer the words are to the bible, the better the song's meaning will typically be. However, a better method than this, I think, is to follow what the biblical words mean, in stead of merely copying what it says. Unfortunately, no specific song comes to mind that was very biblical in its wording, and yet was a total catastrophe in its spiritual edification (I guess that's really a good thing), but compare it to the idea of taking a bible verse out of context; Sure! it's from the bible, but just because that's what the bible said, that's not necessarily what it means. On the other side of the spectrum, I can think of many songs that were not very scriptural in their direct wording, but very biblical in concept. This is what I think we should strive for as far as the wording of hymns goes, and it's not a particularly profound discovery, just merely common sense, when you think about it.

My difficulty with hymns comes from the tunes. I view that tunes have a slightly larger importance on hymns than most people think. A "good tune" is harder to pinpoint than "good words," because it's not like we have recordings of how the Hebrews or the first century Christians sang hymns and what their hymns sounded like. There's a category of hymns that I like to call "Tune-first hymns"; the name is pretty self-explanatory in its first sense, I say, "first sense," because I think there are at least a couple ways in which a hymn can be tune-first. The first sense is when the tune is actually written first; when chronologically, it was actually first. This is not automatically a negative thing. If you're familiar with how metrical indexes work on hymns, you'll find that many hymns words can be fit to many different tunes, and likewise many tunes, to different sets of words. To me, this is merely a fact of hymns, and does not necessarily mean that the author wrote the words solely because he liked the tune. Though he may have.


The second sense is when the song does indeed seem to be focused on the tune; a tune-first motivation in writing, not chronology. The tune of He Bore It All does not inspire one to dwell on the seriousness of Jesus "suffering pain and agony". I take that the song is attempting to look on the brighter side of Jesus' death, and the fact that we are saved through him, but I think Virgil Stamps failed to put a sufficient amount of thought into it, and lacks, in my opinion (unfortunately, that is what most of this ends up to be, opinions) the proper reverence for the situation. As Hebrews 13.15 says, "let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name," I think it fails to be a proper sacrifice when one feels the need to get Jazz hands or to snap one's fingers and bob one's head to the beat or to sway with arms extended in the air. Each of these actions betray a focus on sensation and emotion, as opposed to words and meaning. I would not say it's a sin to sing these songs when they happen to be sung, I simply hold to the belief that there are better songs to be sung than these.


An additional conflict I have with some hymns is hymn construction, which is a kind of a subgroup of the second sense of Tune-first hymns.

I have reservations of the legitimacy of songs that flip-flop between parts (Sopranos sing one thing, then Basses repeat), or where they have the part sing different things (Sopranos sing one thing, while basses sing a similar, or even totally different, thought). The example above, He Bore It All, does both of these things. I'm hesitant to like these songs as hymns, 'cause these formats tend to be on the showier side, and less of what I would consider a "sacrifice." In addition, I haven't seen much biblical example of such formats, aside from The Song of Solomon, where the Bride and Bridegroom are singing to each other. I haven't done much research on it, but when it comes to praising God, I personally have not seen an example of switching between parts (perhaps people with a larger knowledge and a better picture of the bible can help me on this). I would not say it's a sin to sing these songs when they happen to be sung, I simply hold to the belief that there are better songs to be sung than these.


Another hymn I have trouble reconciling, due to it's tune and construction, is the song The Greatest Commands. If you are unfamiliar with the song, here's how it works. It starts with altos singing almost word for word 1 John 4.7-8. After one time through, the basses join in, singing 1 Corinthians 13.7. After a run-through of that, Tenors join in, singing "God is love", quoting 1 John 4.8b. After that, Sopranos, with Luke 10.27. And to wind it all up, the song is sung with all the parts again.

My main question is "Why?" What makes this format better than everyone singing together. On the contrary, this setup seems to me even less effective, if anything. It's practically impossible to distinguish the individual parts when *not* singing along with it, and solely listening to it. If a total stranger were to walk up as this were being sung, all he would find is a jumbled mass of words, and gain little if any coherent message from the song (they would probably gather that "God is love", but this is not surprising, as they have a total of fifty-two chances to hear it said throughout the song. Purely in jest, though maybe with a grain of truth, doesn't the bible say something about vain repetition?). The only way to know what the song is actually saying is to know what the words already are.

In response to this, while talking to him about it, Philip said that in this situation the song perhaps works for the edification of those singing it, or those listening to it who are already familiar with it; that is, not some random stranger that walks through the door. If the song is sung exactly the way it's written, then Altos have to say their part five times, Basses four, Sopranos twice. The Tenors' part is just absolutely ridiculous. Remember the parenthetical comment above, mentioning that "God is love" is said fifty-two times throughout the song? Tenors sing thirty-six of those fifty-two times, and that is the extent of their part. You might think that the edification that Tenors receive comes from the other parts, and they listen to it while singing their own part. In my own experience, and I've tried multiple times, I cannot pay attention at all to other parts of the song while singing it (and I sing the part that requires least concentration, bass). The only way I can somewhat legitimately sing the song is singing each of the parts myself, as they join in (this is clearly not how everyone sings the song, because then we'd only have one part going at a time, which has never been the case in my experience). While I'm sure there are people out there somewhere that can hear every part at the same time, I am not one of those people. So I'm either the impaired person in a group of people that can, or we need to assess our reasons for singing this song.


The third sense is when we consider our motivation in singing the hymn. This is the most important sense, and most relevant to us. Why do we sing the hymns we do? I often find myself falling into liking a hymn for its tune (I get the feeling many of us do), though typically the tunes I like happen to be good songs at the same time; for example, I really like the song All People That On Earth Do Dwell, it happens to be both a good song (almost thought for thought with Psalms 100) and it has an awesome tune.

I'm not a big fan of many Camp songs for this sense of tune-first hymns and the second one above it as well. I'm not opposed to singing them myself (and other tune-first hymns); they don't directly oppose anything the bible says; their simplicity is appealing in camp-like settings, where many of the members are significantly younger; their memorability is useful (like in previously mentioned setting, and when no hymnals or sheet music are being used); but in the end, I can't help but question why we choose to sing those songs, especially in settings where we don't have the restrictions mentioned.

I do what I can to focus on the words of the good hymns I like, not the tune; to like the right thing for the right reason, not the right thing for the wrong reason, and thus avoid the fallacy I worry other people make. And on the other side of the spectrum, when a song I don't particularly like happens to be sung, I try to retain the thought, "If the song is going to be sung anyway, then might as well get out of it what I can." I would not say it's a sin to sing these songs, I simply hold to the belief that there are better songs to be sung than these.


Ultimately, tunes are to enhance the singing experience so as to better worship God, for that is our goal. I would not be opposed to a tune that flip-flopped between parts, if it managed to make the song truly edifying to those singing, understood by those listening, and most importantly, make it most effective as worship to God. For example, Exalted and Our God, He Is Alive, two songs I really like, in spite of their flip-flopping.


I think this post mostly ended up being just a bunch of my opinions for what I like and what I don't like, but I thought I'd just share my thoughts on the matter, and it turns out there were far more thoughts than I was originally anticipating. I hope it's at least more coherent than The Greatest Commands.

  • sloth
    I was actually going to bring up 'He Bore It All' before I saw that you already had. The upbeat, high-tempo, toe-tapping musical style is pretty incongruous with the contemplation of Jesus' suffering.
    by sloth at 08/30/12 5:49PM
  • engelishgentleman
    Wow. A most impressive discourse, sir! And now I shall to try respond in kind.

    I will confess I've never quite understood the ire that He Bore It All sometimes raises. (Can I play "Devil's advocate" for He Bore It All? LOL!) If I start with thinking about the part of the song that keeps repeating, the chorus, I see a song whose heart is about joyfully praising God for our salvation. Each verse describes part of what happened that made possible our salvation, then the chorus says "Praise the Lord," etc for that salvation. I can kind of understand the dislike for the song as a matter of taste, but the truth is that the crucifixion is BOTH the worst thing that has ever happened, AND the BEST thing that has ever happened. So I have no problem (at least in theory) singing about it in a somewhat upbeat manner. I wonder whether the somber nature of all our "Lord's Supper" songs might predispose us to feel any song about the topic of Jesus' death should sound similar? Just pondering. I don't mind if the song still isn't quite to the taste of some people, I just wonder whether the song really deserves the criticism it receives for the reasons I've usually heard given.

    I agree about The Greatest Commands, and its kindred, all the other songs going for the all-four-parts-singing-totally-different-words style. I find it sounds beautiful, but totally incoherent, and therefore somewhat unedifying.

    When it comes to discussions of songs and the words-music relationship, I feel something is often left out of discussions I personally have heard. People usually talk about how the words matter most, how we shouldn't be doing it because we like the music, and so forth. But...if the music weren't important, God wouldn't have told us to sing. Since singing isn't singing without both words and music...I sometimes feel like efforts to parse their relative importance seem like a moot point. And if God wanted a musical element, then I can only assume its at least in part because of how that musical element affects us. I've heard people just about go so far as to say we should not enjoy singing, because then we aren't focusing on God. I feel that is totally wrong. Sure, if self becomes more important than God, that is wrong - but that's true in all areas of life, not just singing. We should keep God in mind in ALL our enjoyable activities, not just singing, and have attitudes that are grateful and seek to glorify him. Enjoying something and glorifying God in it are not mutually exclusive.

    Just a few cents. 2? More than 2? Less than 2? YOU DECIDE!
    by engelishgentleman at 08/30/12 6:58PM
  • LittleHers
    I wanna say a little something about your comments on repetition. I want to say that there is good repetition and bad. 2 Peter 1 says he will teach by way of reminder. He goes on to say that they aren't making "cleverly devised" stories but that they (Paul and the other apostles) made Christ known to us and they were eyewitnesses to his majesty. So that is why we use reminder, to learn something important or to put emphasis on a particular point. Imagine if we only heard of Christ dying on the cross once in our lessons we hear. Psalm 136 uses reminder quite a bit in it (for his lovingkindness is everlasting). So it is important and biblical to repeat. But you do make a good point bringing up Matthew 6:7, with the meaningless repetition. It is important to have the things we repeat, and thus emphasize be important and noteworthy in our worship. The next thing is some repeat of a phrase may be extremely important to one person and have no effect on another. So I find it hard to condemn or praise a song for its repetition. Lemme know what you think.
    by LittleHers at 08/30/12 8:43PM
  • sloth
    I would say there is some value just in the act of singing together, independent of the words. I was once in a secular setting where a large group of us sang 'Yellow Submarine' and it was not only enjoyable but produced unity within the group.
    by sloth at 08/30/12 10:33PM
  • sirtarin
    Very interesting thoughts. I will agree with some of Jonathan's thoughts. As pertains to He Bore It All, there is an aspect of Christ sacrifice that does stir up joy. I can't say that's it's my favorite song, but I don't agree that it is improper.

    Also, as for his third point, I definitely agree with that. Too much emphasis on the music is not good, but the music certainly has a strong purpose. Consider that or gathering together for worship is not just about giving glory to God, but also about encouraging the worshipers. The music to a hymn should be something that is fitting to the words. One example I can think of that the music doesn't lend much of anything to the song is Give Me The Bible. Something about it just seems off or lacking, though I've never been able to place my finger on what. I once did a post quite a while ago listing a few hymns that I particularly like how the music and the words complemented each other.
    by sirtarin at 09/01/12 11:17PM
  • Megalexandros

    Jonathan, I can certainly understand the concept of a positive side to the crucifixion. He Bore It All is an ineffective rendering of that thought. Music has the ability to change within a song, to change between somber-mindedness and total joy. I can understand the cheerfulness of the chorus, but the cheerfulness doesn't seem as fitting when attributed to the three verses as well. I believe it would be a more effective song if it used the method that the song Christ Arose did.

    As for your other large paragraph there, I agree. Music can easily become wrong when it's for our own entertainment, but as you said, so can everything else. Music has its place, otherwise God wouldn't call for it. I immediately think about Deuteronomy 32. Why a song? From what I can figure, music aids memory significantly, so stuff put to song is much easier to remember. If you need to remember something, put it to song. This is one of the possible reasons I've found for such instances in the bible, but I'm sure there are others.


    Oh yeah! Thank you, Nathan. I meant to mention that in my original post, but I had forgotten it among my other thoughts on the matter.

    Repetition is another thing that I've been less inclined to agree with, due to songs like The Greatest Commands where people are repeating things almost nonsensically over and over again. However, repetition is one of those things I'm getting more used to, due to many examples of it in the bible. Psalm 136 as mentioned by Nathan was one of the major examples that got me thinking, with "For his loving-kindness is everlasting" repeated many, many times. Also as Nathan said, emphasis and sincerity seem to be the point of repetition in the bible. And that's not just in psalms and songs recorded in it, but also the prayers of prophets and the like, and narrators of the books of the bible recording stuff twice. Repetition is actually quite common, but as everything else in the bible, it always has purpose and reason. When you're writing something down, and a voice isn't there, adding inflection to give notice to what's important, repetition is one of the few methods left for making a point. If you'll notice back in my original post, I repeated the phrase, "I would not say it's a sin to sing these songs, I simply hold to the belief that there are better songs to be sung than these," three times, so as to make sure my point wasn't misunderstood.

    Going back to the thought of memory, repetition is an absolute necessity for memorization. No body is going to give you a method for remembering something that isn't going to involve repeating some sort of action or phrase.


    I want to make a small addition about emphasis. In addition to repetition, a good method for emphasis in a song is how the music is used. The music can grow louder or softer, slower or faster. This is typically left to the song leader to think about, when leading, but I've found that the actual tune (the key signature and the note placement included) of the song has an effect on such things as well. Just another view of mine on how the tune of a song is important in worship. (Later Edit: this point also goes with my thoughts on He bore It All, and how the actual tune of the song has an effect on the over all thought.)


    Anthony, might I know what post that may be? I'd like to look at it.

    by Megalexandros at 09/06/12 10:10PM
  • sirtarin
    Finally found it. I apparently overlooked it a couple times, and eventually ran across it going through my entries in a more detailed manner.

    A Few Examples of Harmony Between Words and Music
    I had meant to do some more, but I've never gotten around to it. :P
    by sirtarin at 09/07/12 3:01PM
  • engelishgentleman
    ^ Just looked at that. I agree, it REALLY irks when some idiot book editors of a certain hymnal that shall not be named leave out the male parts for most of Yield Not to Temptation. :)
    by engelishgentleman at 09/07/12 10:22PM
  • sirtarin
    ^ From what I've seen, I think Praise for the Lord is the only book that has them all, unless perhaps some of the much older books do. Even the new Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs book doesn't. But that one does at least have a fifth verse to it. :)
    by sirtarin at 09/10/12 3:10PM

07/27/12 1:41PM

I have been busy, busy, busy this past month and a half. I'm not going to recap these events though (not totally, anyway), for I'm still pretty busy. I will try to make a post when I get back to Florida, and cover more fully the experiences of this summer. So much stuff has happened these past few weeks, that I still forget that I have a third nephew (he was born while I was at camp, so I had to wait a week to get the news, and after that it wasn't exactly big news anymore; it was sort of, "Oh, there's another one."). His name is Asher Benjamin, for those of you who haven't heard (I doubt there are many of you, but just in case).

This summer, I have:

Seen two movies in theaters.
Been to two camps.
Gone swimming twice.
Played volleyball at the Whitsitts' twice.
Gained two Ukrainian almost-siblings.
Played on a total of 22 pianos.

It's the Summer of Twos, it seems (if only it were Twosday).

I've done other things, not related to the number two, but I will chronicle them another time.

  • engelishgentleman
    Nice, happy news! :)
    by engelishgentleman at 07/27/12 5:29PM
  • sallyanne
    Sounds fun and busy!
    by sallyanne at 07/27/12 5:55PM
  • sloth
    "Oh, there's another one" -- now you know how I feel.
    by sloth at 07/27/12 6:11PM
  • sirtarin
    Good news! I just got to play a baby grand piano last weekend. Much more noteworthy, I also got to see one of my cousins get married. :)
    by sirtarin at 07/31/12 10:21AM
  • 2nd_fiddler
    We miss you and your family already and so happy for your summer Indiana visit. I'm praying for your Ukrainian "almost-siblings"....and for you and your family, too.
    by 2nd_fiddler at 08/04/12 6:33AM
  • thejoyoftom
    Your summer of twos made me laugh out loud. I love my kids' sense of humor! :)
    by thejoyoftom at 08/28/12 7:37PM

"I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

Departure for the Homeland is nigh; less than a week to go (Dad, upon seeing this first sentence, "Homeland? This is your homeland!" He then proceeded to sing a parody of This World is not My Home). This post shouldn't be long; just a small update of the upcoming events. As of this coming Monday, we will be starting our Journey for Indiana. I should have little opportunity to access the internet, aside from mooching off of friends' computers and internet access, so updates will probably be even less frequent then they are now.

I'm quite excited about the upcoming events of this summer; Two camps, another nephew (no definite gender just yet, this is just my expectation), getting to know possible new siblings who only speak Russian. I think those are the really major things, there might be more, less important things, though.

I will miss my piano over this time period. Speaking of which, I've officially named him "Tommy." For this reason: I was reading through my American History book, reading about the 1930s or around there, and it was mentioned therein that sub-machine guns at the time were nicknamed "Chicago Pianos," due to the fast play-style of the music of the time period. So I, feeling the urgent need to name my piano, figured I'd turn this the other way around, and name my piano after a sub-machine gun, and thus, "Tommy" was born!

I suppose this random, random update will do until who-knows-when.

P.S. Wow, that makes two pleo posts of the past three that the title is a quote from Casablanca.

P.P.S. Looks like I should have internet over the summer, so posting should continue, but who knows how busy I'll be, and if I'll find time.

  • sirtarin
    Enjoy going to Indiana. It sounds like it could be fairly busy. =)

    That is an amusing way to name your piano. We have not named our piano (Nor our vehicles, like some people do.), but it is a Hamilton brand piano, so we find it to be quite fitting. =D
    by sirtarin at 06/19/12 2:50PM
  • engelishgentleman
    Casablanca is an awesome movie.

    I always find it fascinating to hear people talk about their "home state." I moved around far too much while growing up to have such strong sense of connection to any one location, so it interests to me see how other people can feel differently about a place.
    by engelishgentleman at 06/19/12 3:47PM
  • thejoyoftom
    Dad is going to sign us up for internet over the summer because we need to stay connected to all the people involved in our hosting and adopting Radion and Kolya. So, you can continue random posts and quotes from Casablanca all summer long. :)
    by thejoyoftom at 06/20/12 5:36PM