Forgiveness

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  I look forward to reading other responses to this. I will take a stab at posting what I believe the Bible says about these.

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 5:37PM
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  #1) "Does someone have to ask us for forgiveness before we can give it?"
  
  As I answer, I assume we are talking about sin, not just being offended or hurth. I am not talking about debt in a monetary sense. In any of those case we can forgive without the person saying anything. But what about sin?
  
  According to Strong's "forgive" literally means "to send away." If a person has sinned, we need to remember it is not just against us, but ultimately and most importantly against God (cf. Psalm 51:4). Their sin has not just caused a problem in our relationship with one another, but that persons relationship with God.

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 5:41PM
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  (#1 cont)
  According to Matthew 5:9, we are to be peacemakers. Peacemakers between us and others, but most importantly between God and others. While we can certainly just let there sin go by the wayside and think nothing more of it, making peace between us and the other person, we would be leaving them in bad state regarding their relationship with God.
  
  Therefore, unless a person asks for forgiveness demonstrating understanding and repentance, we must not just let their sin go by the wayside. Rather, we must gently work to restore such a one (Galatians 6:1).

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 5:44PM
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  #2--"Does God forgive automatically, or do we have to ask Him for it?"
  
  I John 1:8-9 says "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
  
  God forgives and cleanses us if we confess our sins. Confess does not just mean to admit that we sinned, but comes from the word "homologeo," meaning to say the same thing as. We have to say the same thing about our sins that God says about them. That is, we must admit that they are spiritually deadly, dreadful, unholy and that they separate us from Him (Isaiah 59:2). Then we can be forgiven.

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 5:48PM
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  (#2 cont)
  
  Having said that, I do not believe that means we have to have a perfect accounting of every sin we ever commit. I certainly do not want to jump from the thought that we have to live perfectly to go to heaven to saying we have to confess perfectly to go to heaven.
  
  Luke 18:13 shows the Publican justified by simply praying "God, be merciful to me a sinner." Yet, even that does not allow us to end each night repeating this phrase but living however we want. There is a balance in there somewhere of not being overcome by fear that we may have accidentally forgotten to confess one particular sin and yet not believing we can live however we want as long as we keep saying the publican's words often enough

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 5:58PM
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  (#2 cont)
  
  One more thing on the definition of confession, instead of going back to edit that comment. Saying the same thing as God about our sin means saying that the only way to deal with that sin is through God's mercy.

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 5:59PM
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  #3--"What role does repentance play in forgiveness?"
  
  Between God and us it is equally as important as the confession. In fact, I believe repentance will precede and produce the confession. Repentance means to think through again. Having committed a sin, we think it through again later and realize how dreadful and spiritually deadly it is, producing godly sorrow and repentance which leads to salvation or spiritual healing (II Corinthians 7:8-10).

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 6:01PM
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  (#3-cont)
  
  Between brother and brother, Luke 17:3 says, "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."
  
  Repentance is indeed necessary for us to forgive. Refer again to the answer to question 1. If the brother has not repented, his soul is still in danger and we must not let that go by the wayside.

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 6:05PM
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  (#3-cont)
  
  We must not let lack of forgiveness be equated with ill will or holding grudges. Not forgiving simply means not letting the sin go away. If the person has repented and we do not forgive then we are guilty ourselves. If they haven't repented, we do not forgive but that does not mean we harbor ill will for them. Rather, we seek that they repent so they can be forgiven because we want them to be saved even though they sinned against us.
  
  It is amazing to me that Jesus had the authority to forgive sins while on the earth (Matthew 9:2-6). Yet on the cross He did not confer forgiveness to the people around Him. He prayed that God forgive them while He offered the sacrifice that provided the grace for that forgiveness (Luke 23:34). On the day of Pentecost about 3000 of them were forgiven as Jesus prayed, through the sacrifice He offered because they repented and obeyed (Acts 2:37-41).

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 6:09PM
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  (#3-cont)
  
  Finally, regarding this question, we must take care regarding this issue. There is perhaps a sense in which we drop a matter when real repentance has not taken place. We cannot see into a person's heart. They may say, "I repent" but not do so. We are not free to be inquisition squads. But rather as lovers of people we believe and hope all things (I Corinthians 13:7). We do not hold out forgiveness until they prove that they have really repented. We forgive when they say they have repented. If their fruit later shows they have not repented, then we deal with that sin as it happens according to the same pattern we have already seen.

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 6:12PM
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  Anybody else feel free to jump in here. But I am having fun and will continue with the other questions.

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 6:12PM
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  #4--"If I am not the one sinned against, do I have the right to forgive anyone else?" and #5--"If I am not the one sinned against, do I have the right to take it upon myself to get them to repent?"
  
  I will combine these questions because I believe the Bible's response to them goes hand in hand. These posts are getting long enough without me doing a bunch of repeating.
  
  Galatians 6:1 says, "Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness."
  
  This is not an issue of rights. It is an issue of responsibility. If we know someone has sinned, we are responsible to restore them with gentleness.
  
  Can we forgive them? We might be able to send away any aspect of their sin as it relates to us, but we cannot do that on behalf of anyone else, whether brethren or God. If they have sinned against someone else, they can come talk to us for advice but the principle in Matthew 5:23-24 says they have to go to that perso

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 6:17PM
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  (#4-cont)
  
  ...go to that person to receive forgiveness from them.
  
  We can certainly not confer God's forgiveness upon anyone else. We can simply work to restore them in a spirit of gentleness, urging them to repent of their sins, confessing them to God that God will forgive them.
  
  I hope this has been helpful. I look forward to the discussion and hope no one is upset that I dominated the first page of posts on it.

  by patermagister at 01/11/06 6:19PM
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  I don't mind at all! I read every word (and that's quite an accomplishment for me ... often I will skim over stuff), and very much appreciate your answers. I do have some specific questions concerning some of what you have presented, but it is very late for me and I don't think very clearly when I'm tired. I'll take a closer look at what you've posted tomorrow, and see if I can ask some other things. :)

  by prov3110 at 01/12/06 12:16AM
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  I liked your thoughts, because no one else said anything it made it easy to follow and was more like an answer rather than a debate. :) Thanks.

  by firefaerie at 01/12/06 6:57PM
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  God is the only one that can remove sin. I can try and help a person see that they are in sin and therefore help them seek forgiveness of sin.
  
  As for forgiving others who wrong me, I feel the Bible shows that God will forgive me as I forgive others. I think this is part of the Lord's prayer. I do things wrong that I do not even know about and I therefore do not know to ask for forgiveness for them. So I would hope that God would forgive me of these things. If I know about the thing I did wrong than I shoould ask for forgiveness.
  
  I also know from life it's self that to hold thing in my heart (resentments) hurts me in the long run. Resentments cause me continued problems, fear, anger and hate to one degree or another. So as soon as I can forgive then I can move away from these things (emotions) that hurt me and keep me from being my best for God. To do this I need to forgive as soon as I am able. Sometimes I do this even when a person has not come to me and asked for forgiveness. Sometimes they do not know they have harmed me just like I do not know I have done wrong sometimes.

  by sobern90 at 05/30/06 2:21PM